Suicide 2 Win


#1

So, I just looked over a post from @theangelov about players suiciding to win a game, which was posted in November of 2018. I have really enjoyed all the updates and whatnot since then and I believe that the game has improved. However, I have also run into this same issue in games recently. It’s such a tricky topic because there two sides to the argument:
1) Suiciding just means you’re a bad player and you’re scared about losing those precious points.
or
2) Suiciding is the logical play because the game is all about winning regardless of how you get there.

I understand where both sides come from, but it just rubs me the wrong way when I encounter a player that does this on the final round. I’ve seen that it becomes more common with fewer players in the game (3-4 players happens almost always). Here’s the scenario (4 player game; 150 pts to win): one player has already left the game, so now we’re down to 3. The 1st place player has 140 pts going into the last round, 2nd place has 110 pts, and the 3rd place has 60 pts. Once the last round starts, the players’ pts go up to 150, 120, and 70 respectively. That 1st place person almost always suicides immediately, assuming that the players won’t be able to get above his score. Most of the time, the others cannot and it just ruined the last round for them as they didn’t have much of a chance to steal enough points.
>> This still occurs in 5-6 player games, but not quite as much. I have encountered a few games where someone suicided because they had enough to win and it was 50+ pts ahead of everyone else. However, on some of those games, I was able to steal enough points to actually close the gap and win!

If the developers even wanted to fix this, I’m not exactly sure how it would come about, but here are a few ideas or thoughts.
[1] the first player to die each round loses a percentage of his points, maybe 10% or something, in addition to the others gaining 10 pts for survival.
>>> this would encourage the top player to stay in the game until at least 1 other player has died, hopefully giving the others an opportunity to steal
[2] implausible suggestion, but if the scenario occurs where a player will have enough pts to win w/ the survival bonus going into the next round, nobody can die the first 15-20 seconds of that round. You could do this by wrapping the walls around (like the old days) and players curves don’t start for those 20 seconds.
>>> all players are fully exposed w/out the obstacles of curves or walls, but the mods can still be used to steal points

Again, this is a very tricky subject to discuss because of the radically opposing opinions. To clarify, I don’t mind someone suiciding to avoid losing points after playing for a couple of minutes. I get annoyed when I see players intentionally suiciding at the beginning of a round because they are winning. What are some opinions or thoughts about this subject?

-Durt


#2

Hi Durt,

I agree, this is a tricky topic.

If you are ahead a lot I think it is the logical thing to do, because otherwise one hit would steal a lot from you and I have seen it happen that people got from a solid first to last place because they did not suicide. I have to say, that if you are far that much ahead of all others you played some insanely good rounds and deserve to win (why risking it?). Suicide is risky tho (at least sometimes), if you are not way ahead, other players can steal points from each other and possibly catch up.

I also get the other side where it is really annoying if you know you could hit the leader for a good amount and he just suicides. But I guess you could have stolen points from him earlier to prevent that huge lead from happening.

It does not only happen to secure a win, but let’s say 2 players are left and one places a fever in front of your curve. Either you die and give your opponent 10 points, or you go into it, give him 10% of your points and lose 10% of yours as well. If you do the later you better win the round to get those points back and even then it sometimes was not worth it.

Imo attacking is too powerfull atm. It is super hard to win with only surviving. I think changing that would already help a little bit.


About your solutions:

  1. Can be pretty tricky, because you could just run away and wait until the first one dies :joy:, but it gets you a couple more seconds to attack that player. This however would be super annoying if it is a close match and you die first :joy: bb points.
  2. Don’t really see this happening either.

I guess we need to accept that it currently is part of the game and play previous to last rounds better in order to prevent a huge lead.

Line


#3

Perhaps the problem could be solved by assigning points in a different way than now after someone dies. Now every player receives 10 points each time someone die. Perhaps it would be better for players to score less points after the first death (eg. 6 points), after the second death score a little more points, and the last survived scores the most points (between 15 and 20). Of course, first you should test which distribution of points in this case would be the most optimal for the game.
Examples (6 players in game):
1.:
1st dead -> 6 points
2nd dead -> 7 points
3th dead -> 8 points
4th dead -> 9 points
5th dead -> 10 points

2.:
1st dead -> 4 points
2nd dead -> 5 points
3th dead -> 7 points
4th dead -> 10 points
5th dead -> 15 points


#4

Actually, there is a possibility of stopping all suicides. It is kind of a new gamemode, but…
It’s basically the opposite of the Stealing gamemode (ehh, kind of).

Every player starts with (let’s say…) 500 points. Whoever die first loses 60 points, whoever die second loses 50 points and etc. Stealing is available, but the stealing percent is a little different. Whoever get to 0 points first, is eliminated. The last person standing with more than 0 points, wins the match.


#5

like deathmatch or something


#6

I would really love to see a new game mode that changes things up. I mean, the ‘pickups’ game mode was added, but that’s only in custom rooms. We need a new mode that is available on quickplay that maybe discourages the suicide.


#7

I totally understand and I actually agree with you on this. You gave a good explanation to why it’s okay for now. It still annoying if a player is like 11 points ahead of you and then they suicide so that they win. Maybe I should stop playing during the hours where there are less people on so that I don’t get into 4-player games. haha

Thanks for your input, Line!


#8

I like this idea a lot CVET! It could definitely change the aspect of survival. Thanks for the input


#9

I think CVET’s idea is very interesting!
I have been thinking about this issue myself a lot when playing.
Now that the turrets have been buffed, the balance seems to be a bit better. But I would still love to see some amount of “bleed” when dead. This would encourage using the turrets and also discourage kamikaze.


#10

I feel like killing yourself just so you don’t run into a mine or fever in front of you is okay. But killing yourself just to win when literally now one else is near you is just not cool.


#11

One way to fix this could be, that you can only win a game when you have more than 250 points AND are the last one standing


#12

that would be tough though


#13

That would be a mess :joy: but why not trying it


#14

Just thought about this after seeing @Geert ‘s suggestion. What about making it where you have to be the above 250pts and be 1st for two rounds in a row? That would give an extra round for players to catch up if they were close and incentive for 1st place to play well after they have reached the necessary points to win. I think this could actually be a thing!


#15

2 times? Sorry but have you ever been 1st and had 250 points? You get targeted by everyone these games would never end. You can’t possibly win 2 rounds with being that high, except every one is that high :joy:


#16

Oh danggit, I wasn’t thinking about that. Makes so much sense and now I know it’s not a feasible option. Thanks for catching that Line!


#17

Just saying but this wasn’t a massive issue before the friends update when people were balanced and where you could generally make back any points stolen before the end of the last round.


#18

This actually sounds like an awesome Idea and I would probably play this over the regular quick match because of the major imbalances in quick matches as of now.


#19

#revertthebalancing


#20

Revert revert revert revert revert revert lol devs plz no ban